Tuesday, December 5, 2023 – New York City

Sometimes field reports are so complex, with so much to uncover, and the truths so painful, that I put them off. This is one such case. Here I am now, having taken a full 36 hours to digest what happened. I will keep this as short as possible, I could write 3x more:

I had approached this girl back in the summer. She was into the approach, we texted back and forth, and then she fell off. As per my experiment, I never send restart texts to get a girl back.

A month ago I got a random text from her “who is this?” According to her later, she might have been shroomin’ for the first time in her life and apparently was going through her old texts. I responded, tooling her for disappearing, and she said “omg it’s the cute guy that approached me in Soho!”

A girl calling you cute or overly complimenting your approach is a sure cuck tell, so I kept that in mind.

We went back and forth a few times, but she fell off again.

Then, I randomly reapproached her in Soho close to where we first met and she was floored that this could have happened. “OK, we definitely need to go on a date now,” she said.

Girls who refer to it as a “date” are usually cuck. I kept this in mind.

Set up the date for Tuesday evening. I was feeling a bit loose and lackluster. I honestly didn’t even want to go. This mentality likely contributed to my less than stellar performance.

We met up and I immediately saw that she had a strong personality. She was a Brooklyn girl, after all.

— So are you just gonna stand here staring at me or what?
Yeah, I’m gonna make you stand out in the cold all night.
— Why?
(looking her in the eye menacingly with a wry smile) Because I know you cant take it.
— You’re a jackass! (she laughs)

I also failed a test early on where she admitted she had little common sense but then suspected I didn’t either. I just said she was wrong but I should have completely flipped the frame on her and said “Are you usually this wrong about people?” I could have also spun it into a positive we frame: “Yeah looks like we both don’t, we’ll make a great failed crime team when we get caught!”

I recognized early in the date that she had an agenda. She was the one asking me questions and trying to lead. This is rare for girls I go on dates with, especially this young (she was 23). While I wasn’t thrown off by it, my inability to strongly flip this frame and keep pushing would eventually be my undoing.

After her third question I did indeed call it out:

What is this, a fuckin’ interview?
— Well excuuuuuse me, you haven’t asked me a single question!
Because you haven’t left any space for me to!
— OK here we go, I wont even look at you (she mock pulls her chair back)

After this, the question-asking was much more equitable and the brattiness disappeared. I figured that because I had smacked her bullshit a couple times, I was good to go. After all, this was more than 95% of guys would have done in this situation, so I should be fine, right?

No. As Dante later told me, it’s never enough.

As we got into the center of the date, it was all comfort and commonality-building. We shared deeper stories from our lives. I shared my mental health journey after asking her about hers. We talked about childhood, family, trauma, and sex. I told her that I lost my virginity at 24.

We were really getting along. I liked this girl, and remember thinking during the date that she was “rotation-quality.” It was clear that she also found me a fascinating person.

I was enjoying the date. That was a bad sign. Whenever I have actually gotten along with a girl, actually enjoyed a date, she has not slept with me on the first date. I notice that this happens whenever a girl is actually inquisitive about me as a person and asks me interesting questions. I’m a dynamic person with a fascinating history and flattered whenever someone is intrigued by me. So with her, I let my guard down. I was [name of the person behind Pancake Mouse], when I needed to be Pancake Mouse.

During the date, I found out what should have been red flags about her: she used to be anorexic, at 16 she was a cheerleader and dated the head football coach (and somehow her mom was OK with this), and at 19 she was engaged for 3 years to a guy she met in college. I somehow ignored these and didn’t make a link that I needed to call this stuff out instead of saying “hmm, interesting!”

The time melted away, and before I knew it, we were an hour and 45 minutes in and I still hadn’t even seeded a pull. She wanted to get another drink, but I stopped her and told her I wanted to make her a drink instead.

I could see she was reticent about the pull so I stole her objection: “But no funny business!” “We’re just getting a drink.” I said. She agreed, I offered my hand to shake on it (probably shouldn’t do this in the future) and we were off.

Poured her a drink at the house. At this time, I was just in full Disney mode, believing that if I just spent enough time with her and provided enough fun and comfort, I would get laid.

I even waited super long to escalate. I didn’t even start kissing her until about 3 hours and 45 minutes into the date.

There were five rounds of escalation total. On the first two, it was just kissing, and I made sure to pull back before she did. I could tell that she wasn’t chasing me yet. She would return to sitting far away from me on the couch.

On the later rounds, the brattiness returned. Her resistance consisted of physically pushing me off and laughingly saying things like “Go away! Get out of here! You’re so fucking stupid!”

After the third round, she asked what time it was and made moves like she was thinking about leaving. I just didn’t address it and tried a takeaway, going to wash dishes in the kitchen. As usual, the takeaway did not work at all. Other guys describe girls chasing them when they try this. She did not chase me at all. The only chasing she did was asking if I had a middle name after three minutes of silence.

After she did this, I re-engaged with her. I figured I would just keep trying and see if I could get further. She mentioned she had to leave again because she had work “early” (11 AM). I called her out for being scared of me and wanting to leave and then she acted really bratty. I just grabbed her and started making out with her again.

At this point, I was chasing and fighting a losing battle. I had no fucking idea what to do, my only thought was just to keep her there and keep escalating so that she might get turned on enough.

This time I got further. I had her on the bed, tits out, sucking on her nipples, rubbing her pussy through her skirt. She was turned on, but would block me every time I tried to get my hand down her underwear. I eventually asked “Why?” She said that she needed to give me a reason to see her again.

I had promised at least one guy, A, that I would stop doing drama for a while. But this time I couldn’t resist. This girl was bratty, which theoretically would be the perfect archetype for drama.

I tried baby drama first:

You think that I’m that guy that’s not going to see you again just because we had sex?
— Maybe?
I understand that you think that you have to like put all these rules on things…
— Rules, I hate rules!
But you still feel like you have to do things, so…
— I don’t feel like I have to do anything.
We’re just having fun!
— We’re just fucking.
Who said anything about fucking?
— So we’re not fucking.
We haven’t fucked. But you keep withdrawing and pulling back, so.
— I’m not withdrawing and pulling back.
Yeah you are.

After this, I tried another round of escalation, and she started laughing and again slapped me away and said “Get out of here!”

Right after that, I escalated the drama. I won’t bother to write it out here, but it was basically the same frames as before, with her denying that she was pulling back and me not being able to call out that it was about sex, whereas she knew exactly that I was getting “frustrated” that I couldn’t get sex.

The mood changed instantly. Four hours of a “great date” turned to dust. She said “I’m gonna go. That was weird.” She stormed into the living room, grabbed her jacket, and left.

Low point. I can barely listen to the recording.

She didn’t respond to the drama at all. In fact, her mood changed faster than any girl I’ve ever seen and she left quickly.

Funnily enough, I remembered something she said early on in the date, after we battled a bit: “I feel like one of us is leave the date pissed off… and I think it’s going to be me.”

I just agreed, but what I should have said was: “Why, is that the reaction you usually get from guys on dates?” It’s never enough. Always be flipping frames.

Analysis and Feedback

Active Frame Control

After hearing a snippet from the date, John Adams asked “Who do you think has the frame here?” My initial reaction was to say that I didn’t know.

He pointed out that during the audio he listened to, I was simply responding to her frame and combating it, instead of calling out the metaframe of her being judgmental and condescending. This is a sticking point for me. In frame battles, I play defense instead of offense.

For a date like this with lots of comfort and connection, I never really think of a certain party “having the frame”. I just assumed it was a mutual thing.

But I forgot: this is fucking New York. The woman has the frame, ALWAYS, unless you take it from her and establish dominance.

This was a great example of a “girl date”. Show up, guy buys you drinks, you get validated for hours and then you leave and have a good night’s sleep.

THIS IS WHAT GIRLS WILL DO EVERY SINGLE TIME UNLESS YOU TAKE IT FROM THEM.

I even called this girl out multiple times, but it didn’t matter. I did more to call her out than the vast majority of guys, but it wasn’t enough.

“It is NEVER enough.”
— Dante

The difference is that my callouts were passive, or reactive to the frame that she was setting, rather than actively looking to call her out and set frames based on the meta-state of the interaction.

Whenever I think a girl is being genuine with me, she is not. She is running her agenda. My goal is to take that agenda, snatch it away, and make it mine.

Frames I could have used:

• She’s fake sexual
• It’s obvious that she only hit me up because all of her other guys were out of town
• She’s just shopping for the next best provider for her

These are hard-hitting callouts. They’re going to get a reaction, which is good, because I can clap back and create more tension:

— Oh, are you butthurt because you want to be the guy that’s next?
If that’s the impression you got when I first approached you, then I want to know what guys you’re getting with, because I don’t know any simps that talk to a girl on the street.

Mantra I will remember from now on:

Unless she’s actively in your frame, you are in hers.

I almost need a notification that pings me every ten minutes with this on a date to make sure I’m the one in control.

Taking Risks on the Date

Related to the previous section, I have a sticking point about just assuming the date is going well and rolling with it, rather than taking huge risks to either blow the date out or make it more solid.

Something I’ve always wondered about Dante is that he intentionally sparks frame battles on his dates to be able to create tension and show the girl what type of man he is. This is completely out of my zone.

Early Frame Control to Set Drama Up For Success

Every time I run drama, it’s right after I get LMR. This is wrong. Somehow I had the idea that this was correct.

Done this way, it’s too obvious to the girl that I’m frustrated about not getting what I want.

Also, I’m not setting up the correct frames on the date to make drama work. My thought pattern is “SHE WONT LET ME RUB HER PUSSY, TIME FOR DRAMA” instead of bringing up on the date how she’s been fake to me the whole time, how she’s the type of girl to use men, etc. and getting that tension out of the way quicker.

I need to set myself up for success later on. Dante noticed that when he took a girl out and acted like himself: a goofball nerd with a good vibe, he would get cucked when he got to the box. Instead, he needs to run down the checklist every date: did he make her qualify, was he the buyer, did he sell his product, did he push/pull, did he make her chase?

I need to treat the date part as just setting frames in her mind of how I want the relationship to go so that when she gets back to my box, she already knows what the deal is. This is something that I learned from Ultimate Man Project but I haven’t been implementing it that well.

Showing My Cards

I showed my cards too early. I didn’t come out and say that I liked her, but I said it with my frame. I shared bits about my life. I talked about myself genuinely. I shared my mental health experience. These are not things a fuckboy would do.

I need to be indifferent, mysterious, cagey. It should not be you that’s opening up to the girl and telling her about your feelings. It should be her who’s opening up to you because she likes you and feels safe around you.

The only times I can show commonality would be to reward her for good behavior, or to create a sexual frame or something that serves some purpose other than “building connection.” The information can be the same, but the frame presented to the girl has to be different! For example, Dante can talk about his trauma but he spins it into a we frame, then to sexualization.

And you know what? This is the exact same thing that cucked the last date I went on. Lots of comfort, lots of connection, me opening up… then BOOM LMR at the box. Well, obviously… the girl sees me as having more long-term potential. You can never lead with long term potential, you want the girl to chase that over time.

NYC Date Game

Some guys are probably shaking their head reading this, saying “but that’s the game I run and I get laid.”

Well, yeah. This actually works everywhere outside of NYC. That’s the issue. You can just be yourself and build comfort and the girl might actually fuck you because you’re oh so authentic.

Not here.

I am still running date game that I’ve built over the years from when I lived in the Bay and other cities. And there it was working more. But the stories I’m telling, the frames that I’m setting, are still left over from that time.

I need to destroy it all and build a new NYC date game for success here.

Confronting a Frame vs. Playing With It

I don’t just have to flip frames, battle, and be confrontational. That’s actually a last resort.

It can be more powerful to joke around with it and create a we frame.

When I’m direct and confrontational, I show that it’s a serious topic, which implies that I’m mad, which implies that I care. caring isn’t sexy.

Drama Game Hiatus

I’m done with “LMR Drama Game”.

Until I can figure out a path to learn frame control.

Drama makes me feel like shit.

It makes the girl feel like shit.

It leaves her with a long-lasting NEGATIVE impression of me, and that’s not what I want from anyone.

I am a six year old wielding a broadsword, trying to learn the ways of the blade. I need to start with a dagger.

I will use tried and tested methods to overcome LMR:

• Pre-framing (“I don’t like rules girls”)
• Fractionation (Two steps forward, one step back)
• Rikers 3 rules
• Logical convincing
• Agree and arouse “We shouldn’t do this” – “I know, we shouldn’t”
• Turn her on enough
• Checkmating
• Hand on dick/Whip it out
• Freeze out
• Leave your place and go for a walk or another drink
• Last resort: ask her to spend the night with you and close in the morning

When I feel more comfortable and grounded, I can add drama game back in.

So for now, frames will be set early on the date, and drama game will be run far before I ever get LMR. This should tone down the volatility of the situation.